Thinking About a Track Toy

"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s) 02/16/2019 at 18:42 • Filed to: unnecessary car shopping without E90M3

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After going back to an automatic for my daily I am beginning to miss the rawness and satisfaction of being able to row my own gears. So this has me thinking about a car that would be a track car/weekend car/give no Fs car where I can park it in a crowded parking lot and not worry about finding dings on it.

In comes the 350z. These have gotten cheap enough that I might be interested in having one for the track or taking to work on Fridays in the spring/summer. I like that it has a large aftermarket so I can diy and tinker with it on my spare time.

S o what does Oppo think? Is the 350z a good track car? And is it reliable? Is there anything I need to know about it?

Also, mobile Kinja is dreadful.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 18:55

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The early versions used large quantities of oil, and the VQ35HR is the improved version, but costs more. The best budget track car you can buy is a Miata.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 18:57

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Also, before Bman appears, it’s the worst sounding car in the history of automobiles.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:00

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Get an F-Body with an LS

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:01

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I don’t dislike 350Zs, but VQs are just the worst sounding motors on earth.

*cough* just buy a Miata *cough*

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/16/2019 at 19:01

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I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:02

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I’m just gonna say it. Miata.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:07

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Depending on how cheap you want to go, corvettes are an option too. 350z is average on reliability. Old cars are old though so parts are wearing out as the years and mileage rack up. I don’t recall the 350z being particularly UNreliable, but I don’t think even back when it was new it was known as particularly overbuilt. 

RacinBob > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:09

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There are some Z’s in SCCA Touring class. I would ask one of those teams.

Whatever the choice, I suggest base your search for something that people are using successfully as a track/stock based race car today. My reasoning is you can talk to people who are using it already and make sure that there are no bugs like differentials that explode, hubs and bearings that only survive a week or so or rods that ventilate the block because you need a trapped oil pan to survive high G turns.

Miata seems very reliable. I would shy away from 300 hp cars as you will probably consume a lot of brakes and drivetrain parts. Also, a fast car is not necessarily a lot of fun when learning.

Of course if you want to disregard my sage advice, this looks like a lot of fun for the money..... https://www.racingjunk.com/Production/183113175/2005-Mustang-GT.html?category_id=86&np_offset=13

Cash Rewards > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/16/2019 at 19:15

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I remember road and track stuffed one in a wall during a hot lap challenge as the brakes overheating. Probably an easy fix with proper fluid

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 02/16/2019 at 19:15

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As someone who owns an F-body with an LS, nah,  buy a Miata.

RacinBob > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:15

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Lotsa options here....

https://www.racingjunk.com/category/Road-Racing-Cars/Other/85?page=1

E92M3 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:18

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I was going to suggest an E36 M3. T he 350z will be more reliable than that.

WRXforScience > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:21

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They are okay as a track car, they have issues keeping the brakes cool and they’re a bit rough at the limit. They are popular in the drift community since they’re cheap so parts might be easier to come by than they used to be. I knew people who ran them and liked them but they seemed to have more issues than other similar cars with the same miles and years (mostly little things, but it seemed like there was always something to fix, which is pretty common for anything that’s 10+ years old and sees any significant track time).

The 350z gets loud and uncomfortable quickly with modifications, a trackday costs enough that if you do enough of them to warrant a track car your running costs become a bigger factor than purchase costs quickly.

There are some important aspects to know before recommending a track car:

1) Is this for a HPDE, Time Trial, or a wheel to wheel racing series?

2) Are you going to be driving it on the street?

3) Do you have a tow vehicle?

4) How often are you planning to go to the track?

5) What kind of track experience do you have?

6) What tracks do you plan on running?

7) What’s your budget look like, and what are your expectations?

I love my BRZ as a Time Trial, HPDE, autox, and daily driver all around car. It’s got enough room to fit a full set of tires and tools with the seats folded down, the stock seats are good enough to track with, and consumables are cheap.

If you’re doing wheel to wheel you want a cage and if you have a cage you don’t want to drive on the street (it’s super dangerous) and you’ll probably want/need a tow car.

The number one cost is going to be tires and the 350Z requires bigger tires (nearly into the Mustang GT/Camaro tire sizes). The same set of tires cost me half what it costs my friend with a Mustang GT, it costs him at least $15 0 more for a track day than it costs me. The only thing cheaper to run than my BRZ would be a Miata but there are lots of extra safety rules for convertibles and a Miata would require at least a tire trailer (you’ll need one of those for a 350z, Mustang, and most non-hatches).

There’s nothing obviously wrong with a 350z, but there also isn’t any one area where it excels. It’s heavier and less reliable than an S2K, slower than a V8 Mustang/Camaro, and costs more to run than a Miata/86. I haven’t seen one at the track or autocross regularly in a couple of years and all the guys who used to have them have moved on with few regrets.

My advice: get a 2015 BRZ and buy the SSC (spec sports coupe) kit, the kit is a good starting point for autox and the track plus as a spec series you can get a good idea of how you’re doing against others with the exact same setup. The series is only a couple of years old, so there aren’t too many used cars floating around but you might find one locally (the kit is sold through TireRack, so it’s a fixed price). A stock 86 is great at the track (fluids, brakes, and tires need to be upgraded and an oil cooler fitted but those are pretty much needed on everything). The only real downside to the stock setup is the lack of camber adjustment up front, but that’s not too tough to sort out.

daender > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:22

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Miata.  Our SCCA region has a 350Z who tried to track their 350Z...until they compared the tire cost against a Miata, they bought a Miata soon afterward.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 02/16/2019 at 19:39

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G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 19:46

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Here’s a quick primer on the basics:

Make sure you get one with Brembos and upgrade the pads, lines and fluid as even the stock Brembos are a bit undersized.

You will need a catch can.

Always c heck the oil before every session.

An oil cooler helps a lot.

The stock vLSD is susceptible to overheating during long sessions. Figure around $1k plus install for a 1.5 way diff and if you’re doing the diff you might as well upgrade to 3.9 or 4.08 gears . 4.36 is a little short for longer tracks but it makes the straightaways way shorter .

Tires are huge and thus expensive.

HR-engined cars burn almost no oil, RevUp DE cars burn a ton, regular DE cars fall somewhere in the middle.

The only way to turn VDC all the way off is to either pull the ABS fuse or wire an SPST switch into the orange wire on the yaw sensor harness. The prior method also disables ABS, the latter leaves ABS intact.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 20:24

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Miata Miata Miata. Miata Miata, Miata Miata Miata. Miata. 

RacinBob > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 20:33

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how about this - New gen Miata project

https://www.racingjunk.com/Other/183139387/2016-Mazda-Miata-MX5-Track-Car-Project.html#3

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/16/2019 at 21:05

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I’d rather hear the VQ than a Civic. 

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > WRXforScience 02/16/2019 at 21:09

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I’m thinking HPDE. It would be street use as well. The plan is to drive it to the track and it’d be around Latina Seca.

Funny story about the 86. I had a BRZ before.

Agreed on the running costs. I’d say a budget is 10k

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 02/16/2019 at 21:12

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I was hoping for something more original than the standard answer.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > E92M3 02/16/2019 at 21:13

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E36 M3 would be nice but they’ve all been destroyed around here with mods and cheap  matte paint

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 02/16/2019 at 21:14

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I know. I know. Miata is the answer. The ND does look quite nice. I’m just not sold on the lack of torque

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > daender 02/16/2019 at 21:15

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Which generation would you recommend? I’m not a fan of the NA and the NB looks kind of bland to me. 

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 02/16/2019 at 21:15

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Looks like everyone’s talking about tire costs. That may be a deterrent since those will start adding up in costs. 

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > RacinBob 02/16/2019 at 21:16

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I may need to relook at the s2000 based on everyone else’s points. Or I guess listen to peer pressure and a Miata

daender > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 21:24

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NBs are the best bang- for- buck unless you score a decent NA for cheap and have the time to make it go fast. NB s are basically updated NAs. NAs are fun track day cars, they’re certainly the lightest ones you can buy on a budget . Parts are still easy to find for NAs and NBs, both OEM replacements and aftermarket goodies.   NCs are a bit heavy to start out with although they’re starting to get to the bottom of their depreciation curves.

chaozbandit > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 21:52

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One of the local guys up here ran a Z33 pretty competitively on a relatively small budget, so he has a few things to get you started.

chaozbandit > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 21:56

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There are good entry-level r-comps like the Nankang AR1 that are available for stupid low prices and can perform just as well as the good stuff, if you’re willing to reconsider. Lots of large automotive outfits have good feedback on the compound (Apex Nurburg among one of them)

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/16/2019 at 22:11

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It all depends on what you want to run. The s tock tire size isn’t expensive but you can run 285s out back and eventually you’ll get the itch for wider rubber. 350Zs make great drift cars but they need a few small  tweaks to be good track cars. That being said, DE cars are dirt nasty cheap right now and parts are literally everywhere.

Josh - the lost soldier > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/17/2019 at 00:01

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Can’t argue against the Z33, but the V35 G35 might be an easier find on Craigslist. It’s a bit heavi er, but has the same engine and a greatly balanced chassis.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/17/2019 at 01:43

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I have an STS p repared NA Miata and a 2002 Trans Am. A set of 200TW tires for the Miata is like $450, meanwhile the TA costs $900-1000. Tire costs are a real killer. I can run 2-3 times more events a season with the Miata  for the same cost as the TA (because the lighter car is also easier on tires).

Somebody else suggested a BRZ/FRS/86 and the SSC kit. That’d be a great option as well.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/17/2019 at 10:00

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I mean I haven't been able to find a better answer for myself. I've thought about it but everything else is guaranteed to cost more. 

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 02/17/2019 at 11:21

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I will start to look at NB miatas now since it seems like they’re good bang for buck. Although I’m wondering if it may be worth it to spend a little more for an NC or just get an ND? Since this will double as a street car and I would like some safety features for when I take it to work or the store.

As for the BRZ suggestion. I had one. I wasn’t a fan of the gearing in it.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > daender 02/17/2019 at 11:27

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Interesting. So what else about the NC is so bad? I know it’s heavier and looks kind of derpy but is there really anything bad about it?

DasWauto > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/17/2019 at 17:08

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Everyone is suggesting a Miata, as they should, so I’ll go a bit left field and suggest a 128i. Not that I’m biased or anything.

/would’ve bought a Miata if I fit in them

daender > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 02/17/2019 at 20:25

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That’s really it other than the trunk being hilariously small, it has less usable volume than a NA . It’s a solid car that shares some suspension components with the RX-8. If you want more torque and power then people are swapping in the 2.5L inline-four in . A semi-local NC car is making over 200hp/200ft-lbs naturally-aspirated and it’s a hilariously fast car, especially during track days.